Much worse then useless

The discussion about the role of the church in these troubled times once again came to the fore this week, when protestant daily Nederlands Dagblad (NL) reported a survey, in which 75% of vicars agreed with the statement that a christian ought not vote Wilders or the PVV. From
A Christian cannot vote for Geert Wilders' anti-immigration party PVV, say 75% of church leaders in a poll of 1,200 ministers and church workers in the Nederlands Dagblad.

The ministers represent a cross-section of all the Netherlands' Protestant churches, representing 2.3 million people, the paper says.

One third of the people polled said there were people who supported Wilders in their communities and 5% said Wilders had a lot of support.

'Wilders and the PVV's views contradict Christianity,’ one minister told the paper.
The poll was sent to 4,000 vicars, of which 1280 took the trouble to answer. This fact alone has raised questions about to what extent the poll is representative (NL). Including the number of non-respondents, the best one can say is that 22.5% of vicars are of the opinion that christians cannot vote PVV. The opinion of 70% of vicars is unknown, because they didn't answer the poll.

Of course this didn't prevent the MSM from gleefully reporting the 'news' that 75% of Dutch protestant vicars think Wilders and the PVV beyond the pale for any real christian. However, the ND article is slightly more nuanced in its reporting, pointing out that most of the resistance against the PVV is to be found on the more liberal side of protestant Netherlands, i.e. on the left. Curiously, evangelical vicars are far more understanding of their flocks sympathies for Wilders. In the ND, one evangelical minister is quoted:
A discussion about islam is very necessary. Mainstream parties are not conscious enough of the intolerant danger of islam rushing in, I feel.
In addition, one protestant vicar, himself a sympathizer with Wilders' PVV, states that Wilders is pointing out issues that are currently taboo.
In Holland you have to start a court case for the right to eat a normal meatball in jail, because we serve halal meat. We pamper newcomers to the extent that they become completely welfare-state dependent. If youth are admonished for their behaviour, you're called a racist by many new citizens. That rules out any dialogue.
In the mean time, over at View From the Right, an interesting discussion is developing. Starting out with accusing the Dutch of being of the same stripe as Bishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams, participant Daniel O. points out the one-sidedness of the poll. No such poll has been held with regard to D'66, an objectively and fanatically anti-christian party.

Another commenter, Charles T., notes the 'liberal political philosophy and strategy which the "Christian" church has so stupidly adopted'. That is familiar territory for this blog, where we have pointed out the crass stupidity of the current crop of church leaders again and again and again.

Charles T. closes his comments by noting that 'it is so unfortunate that many of our Christian leaders have become so useless'. To which a follow-on comment responds: Much worse than useless. I couldn't agree more. But what else can one expect in a country where even the crown prince (NL) is educated on matters islamic by an 'academic' specializing in religious studies, who is convinced that 'islam is a religion of peace and muslims are victims for who we must feel empathy'?

5 reacties:

DP111 zei

Jesus was quite clear that we owe a duty to the state, which has to be separate from our duty and obedience to God. Therefore, not defending a decent nation such as the Netherlands, which is essentially based on Christian principles, and letting it become an Islamic sharia hell-hole, would not just be against Christianity, but would put in mortal danger, women, ethnic minorities of faiths other the Islam, as well as homosexuals. In essence, these Christian pastors are sacrificing the above vulnerable people on the altar of the sanctimony, on the altar of their self-righteousness. They don’t care if homosexuals or adulterers stoned to death. These vicars do not care that Jews are being driven out of cities in Europe. What has happened? Are the Nazis making a come back? No they are not, it is the RoP that is coming in, and bringing with it all that is in the best traditions of Islam.

It is clear that these vicars are taking a very narrow view of Christianity. Christianity is a very complex faith, sub-divided on many levels, and cannot be simplistically interpreted, such as sharia can. To take an example,"Thou shall not kill", would mean that no nation based Christian principles would be able to defend itself against aggression - an example of a childish and simplistic understanding of the Bible.

DP111 zei

“ Thou shall not kill”. This would mean that all nations based on Christian principles, which means all Western nations, would be doctrinally banned from using violence to eject an invader. On the other hand, all Christians are required to protect the weak and vulnerable. So where do we go from here?

Netherlands, like most European nations is founded on the ongoing understanding of Christianity. ‘Tolerance’ is an essential feature of Christianity, but by itself, it is obvious that the principle of ‘Tolerance’ becomes suicidal. Then the very faith that gave rise to modern liberal attitudes will die, and with it all that we are now.

How does one non-violently defend our society, if the aggressor is doctrinally violent, as is the case of Islam. Islam spread by the sword, and retains its voters by the threat of beheading, if they dare to leave the Islamic fold. Islam at this moment in history is not invading Europe by the sword. However it is doing so demographically, and by appeasement of Islam generated from fear of Muslims. Whatever may be the method of invasion, our Christian or post-Christian society, is being systematically whittled down. Eventually nothing will remain, which will lead to Sharia, and the flogging of petty criminals, stoning to death of homosexuals, and beheading of adulterers.

The PVV offers a legal and civilised avenue to resist, and eventually reduce the existential threat that Islam poses. As such, all right minded people should support it as a matter of principle – for no principle is as important as the one of self-defence. As for Christian pastors, the PVV allows them the same opportunity to oppose Islam in a peaceful manner, and thus defend the weak and vulnerable in their flock.

leto zei

Tolerance is not a value. It's value that there are not absolute values and is therefore not a value.

Klein Verzet zei

My own understanding of the Christian faith leads me to believe that it was never meant to be pacifist. It starts with the misunderstanding about 'Thou shalt not kill'. Taken at face-value this is an absolute commandment, that can never be kept and would condemn many a soul by mere accident (in a violent car crash on an icy road, for instance).

The Hebrew word used in that commandment is more equivalent to 'murder', as in : "Thou shalt not murder", you're not supposed to deliberately, wantingly rob someone of his life. This is why christian societies (and Our Dear Lord himself, I think) looks a damn sight more kindly upon a veteran soldier then a murderer. At any rate the two are not in any way comparable, as some on the left would have us believe.

The story in the NT about the Roman centurions daughter seems to bear that out. Without launching into a sermon about the godlessness of soldiering and the evils of killing, Our Lord helps the centurion.

God knows there is a time and place for violence, when standing up to evil requires more then just a couple of clever slogans. The story of the cleansing of the temple square illustrates this perfectly. It is this side of christianity that the flower children that have taken over the christian church in the West disregard in embarrassed silence. But in these times it is this side of christianity that needs amplification.

As you say, DP, all Christians are required to protect the weak and vulnerable. Where the church (and many 'christian' leaders) have got it wrong is in their definition of who are vulnerable. Feeding of leftist identity politics, the argue that any minority is automatically vulnerable to oppression by the majority. I've written about this before here (not my best, I'll admit).

'Tolerance' is imho a Christian virtue, insofar that it stems from the Lord telling us: 'Judge not, lest you be judged by the same measure'. It tells us we should give the benefit of the doubt and not criticize too harshly when we see or hear something we do not agree with. However, I don't think (and I do not read anywhere in the Bible) that we should be tolerant of evil. Or that everything is relative. It's not.

Carax zei

"'Wilders and the PVV's views contradict Christianity,’ one minister told the paper. "

Christianity, Judaism, and Islam are all totalitarian systems and contradict the concept of freedom and free will. In all three religions, if you don't believe in them you are condemned. Free will all right, you have no choice.


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